Interesting discussion, its not often you hear a leader say we planned for one type of funding and ended up with another. It would be interesting to hear more about how that affected their timelines, etc.
The other interesting comment was about 'musical DNA.' Product Metadata as mentioned in another post here. Its interesting to use musicians to determine the scheme. How did that work? Is there a review process to enable further refinements? How does interaction with listners affect the data? Lots of interesting directions this could take.
Alternative would be to have Pandora sponsor the event and then we can set up "radio broadcasts" along the running route! Hey this is a whole new marketing strategy for your business as well. Let me know I am a runner as well and a marketing maven if you will. Neal RDOST
Tim a little off the beaten track, would it be possible to touch base with you and see if a few of your performers would like to volunteer and provide music to the Air Force Marathon runners in Dayton Ohio on the third Saturday of September 2011.
Just like the least privileges model for access control, I am seeing companies try to handle data the same way. It used to be collect everything, then use what you need. Now, every application is being scrutinized to determine what data is really needed, then only collect that. It sounds like Pandora has a good grasp of that situation.
We have found that a subscription-based model has been a tough road in education as well, and are beginning to consider an advertising model as well. Zip code is definitely an important attribute, but we are also collecting other demographic information as well so that we can hopefully better target advertising to the needs of our users.
Pandora database seems very complex database, where you have mentioned that this database have around 400 attributes of music files, which must be very big. Now, just wondering, which database is being used for this database?
I just got off listening to Tim's archive. The essence...data is key and aggregating and utilizing to meet business needs defines the success. Looks like Pandora are doing it better. Not sure how a song can have 400 attributes. I guess - it binds to user interaction behavior in order to have such number of attributes.
hounshop made an excellent point by saying "The problem is that some never know how to balance between good content and ad content." I even see bloggers fall for that and debase their content in order to attract more clicks, and, in turn -- or so they would hope -- more ad revenue.
@Mr. Roques: I understand your point, but the difficulties Pandora faces has more to do with the difficulty of actually getting the licenses they require. It's easier to get a U.S. license than a license abroad.
@abdlah: We are all aware that it is difficult for online companies to remain viable without ads. The problem is that some never know how to balance between good content and ad content. They put emphasis on ads than anything else.
@Susan: I am curious if it may be possible/worthwhile for them to -- as a stop-gap measure -- work with several major individual labels to at least offer some select songs abroad, since there is no "central" force to work through internationally.
@Joe StanganelliThanks! I'm sorry I missed the live stream in order to be there for him replying to those questions. There are so many things that could go wrong that the same music studios are afraid of broadcasting their music abroad.
@hnicolassuero Tim commented about the matter in the chat, but I'm also a lawyer and have dealt with music law issues. There is an exception to U.S. copyright law when it comes to published music called a compulsory license. Plus, you have but a few major licensing giants in the U.S. (BMC, ASCAP., one or two others), so that makes it a lot easier for Pandora to operate.
Mr.Roques: This is what you read on their website when you want to access from ouside the US:
We are deeply, deeply sorry to say that due to licensing constraints, we can no longer allow access to Pandora for listeners located outside of the U.S. We will continue to work diligently to realize the vision of a truly global Pandora, but for the time being we are required to restrict its use. We are very sad to have to do this, but there is no other alternative.
In your store about including zip code in the set of data that you collect from the customer and base the marketing campaign on how do you qualify that decision: as Business decision or as Technological decision ?
Tim, you have said that there are about 400 attributes associated with a song which even includes strictly technical data related to a song like, key, tone etc. If I am a musician and know a bit about music, can I add to those attributes? like a wiki?
also, are there any plans for a pandora-studio type integration or production of media, a la the recent spate of HULU-exclusive webisodes, etc? I can't help but wonder if pandora/netflix type distribution could reasonably be used by the studios to shred costs and increase exposure in lieu of physical media distro.
can you talk a little bit about that fair pricing? "unlimited access" for a relatively affordable periodic cost is a model borne out by decades of health clubs; pay up front and monthly and use it or lose it. Metered pricing for access and bandwidth are two separate dimensions of cost, one for the digital asset management and the other for essentially infrastructure, but metered pricing is at odds with the common understanding of net neutrality.
Cost structure - it's all licensing! That's actually half-true. Bandwidth is getting very cheap, and in the long run the only other significant expense are sales-related. That's of course if we manage to hit true scale.
flannery, what are the limitations on treating all media the same? I'd rather pay for access and infrastructure with a guarantee of accessibility and longevity than to spend my cash on local storage and backup capability; e.g. why should I build a RAID5 NAS on my home network when the full-fidelity media can be accessed at any time through Pandora, etc?
My fifth attempt to post this question, so apologies if they all show up at once now:
Tim, given your observations on the difficulties of a subscription-based business, must the be-all and end-all be advertising (a standpoint Twitter recently resigned itself to), or is there another big thing around the corner?
Tim- you mentioned that, if not for a sort of grassroots political campaign, Pandora may not have survived. Can you go ito a bit more detail on what was done on this front? Do you think this is a good way for new struggling businesses to succeed?
Re. YouTube - there's no doubt that anything 'on-demand" is cannibalistic of sales. So those forms of consumption need to be monetized. If you're a new artists, I'd be more focused on audience-building. I wouldn't be nearly as concerned about my sales. The currency of the future is a loyal fan. If free on-demand is what it takes to connect, the more the better.
@Susan...yes, I had to refresh to get my posts to show, and refreshing is taking several minutes. Perhaps this is because of the number of participants??? I haven't experienced these issues on the ieRadio shows previously.
I can't get audio to work on any of my PC's. I have Windows 7 64-bit with IE 8.0. Upgraded Flash Player to 10.1 and turned off Pop ups. My XP VM machine has IE7 and also running Firefox. No audio on any of them...
There are mathematical techniques avaliable under the heading of "dimensional analysis" and search strategies (starting with most important attribute and then progressing down to lesser attributes with a scoring metric)...
While it is a high-dimensional space to match, you don't have to do it all at once. You can start with a few and whittle it down quickly...of course, the magic is in which ones you start with...;-)
math... i was wondering the same thing. How many ways can you match 2 songs with 400 + fields in play? I know that if I am listening to a channel, it is amazing how much the songs match!!! Kudos to the Pandora crew.
I refreshed, closed out & re-logged in, I closed out & emptied browser cache no audio, just this. Now I don't even have cow-bells. I think that this is a rediculous waste of my time at this point. Is the welcome address over?
I am posting via firefox on my pc. I can see the updated chats on my ipad, just can't contribute from there. Sad about that, but I presume it may be due to the limitations of safari on ipad? Nonetheless, excited about the opening salvo from Mr. Westergren
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