The Macrosite for News, Analysis and Opinion about the Future of the Internet
Robert McGarvey

EU May Mandate the 'Right to Be Forgotten'

Written by Robert McGarvey
3/21/2011 11 comments
DISCUSS     Email This

Call it a “right to be forgotten” or maybe it's simply online privacy on steroids; but either way, the push is on inside the European Union to give users of the Internet the right to -- poof! -- make their every Internet trace disappear.

Imagine this: You had a bad day at work, you get home and drain a bottle of wine, then you begin peppering Facebook, Twitter, wherever else you sign on, with posts attacking your boss, the company, your co-workers and... well, you get the ugly picture.

At 3 a.m. you wake up with a start and -- good news, if you are in Europe -- the European Union’s proposed rules will give you the right to obliterate every trace of those angry posts.

Or will they?

And will it work in the United States?

The answers from the experts are much less optimistic than you might hope.

But first, the background.

Formally called "A comprehensive approach on personal data protection in the European Union,” the legislation, driven by EU justice commissioner Viviane Reding, is intended to make sites like Facebook responsible for caring for users’ information. To make sure this truly is so, information must be erased at a user’s request.

Oh, and don’t think that because the servers are not on EU soil that a company can dodge the EU rules. Matthew Newman, spokesman for EU Viviane Reding, told the Guardian that companies "can't think they're exempt just because they have their servers in California or do their data processing in Bangalore. If they're targeting EU citizens, they will have to comply."

Hold your applause.

As leading privacy attorney Chris Wolf puts it, “A flat grant of a right to be forgotten is completely unworkable. A right to be forgotten could be burdensome on business and probably impossible to enforce.”

Wolf, who is director of the privacy practice at Washington law firm Hogan Lovells, added: “I do not see this coming to the United States because of the First Amendment.”

Wolf is hypothesizing instances in which a person comments on another’s post and, later, the first person wants to delete the thread -- which entails deleting the second person’s comment. But that, says Wolf, clearly impedes the second person’s free speech rights.

For that reason -- and the fact that so far the Supreme Court has not ruled that we have a right to informational privacy -- Wolf sees the EU measure as a non-starter in the US.

But the legislation will also face hurdles in Europe, despite significant sentiment that these privacy measures be enacted into law. The reason: “There are big technical problems involved in attempting to delete all instances of information online,” says Darren Hayes, a computer forensics expert and a professor at Pace University in New York.

The core problem pointed out by Hayes is that, once online, information multiplies. It goes into caches, it gets picked up by scraping sites, it gets forwarded by others. Putting info online is the digital-age equivalent of letting a genie out of a bottle. There just is no good, or reliable, way to capture it for erasure.

“The information will never go away completely. Even trying to find all the places where it has been copied is impossible,” says Dave Hatter, owner of software development company Libertas Technologies in Cincinnati.

But just maybe there is a glimmer of hope for privacy advocates. According to Hayes, if a site like Facebook is regularly pilloried in the European press -- and hit with big fines in EU courts -- that may prompt many companies to really stiffen their privacy protections. "Perhaps the practicality [of erasing information] isn’t important," he suggests, "not if the fines and the headlines are big enough."

Nobody wants to be targeted as a bad guy, not for the long term, and this EU legislation is primed to put a harsh, unflattering spotlight on Facebook et al. And that, Hayes believes, may be plenty to nudge them into implementing much tougher privacy protections.

Will the results be perfect? No way -- but they just may be a lot better than what we have.

— Robert McGarvey is a widely published author and expert on social media.

DISCUSS     Email This
Current display:       newest comments first       display in chronological order
Page 1 of 2   Next >
antonis
IQ Crew
Thursday March 24, 2011 4:56:14 AM
no ratings

Hi jabailo,

Indeed, quoting and archiving creates a problem, but if you remove the primary source (e.g a bad post) then damage can be contained!

In this article "Facebook policy chief admits site needs to improve deletion tools for a minority of users":

"the site still needed to “find mechanisms to help in exceptional cases” where data needed to be deleted."... "using young people who needed to delete their “youthful expressions” from Facebook when they are older, in order to not have embarrassing comments used against them in job interviews or in any other walk of life – to illustrate what he meant by exceptional cases."

The article also mention two examples of going too far with data exploitation:

Earlier this year Facebook was forced to disable a new feature which allowed third party companies access to people’s personal contact details, after negative user feedback and warnings from security experts.

And last year Facebook was forced to simplify its privacy settings in response to international criticism of the site’s increasingly complex systems for users to decide what aspects of their data is available online

So a bit a regulatory or otherwise poking is not bad for users afterall :)

jabailo
IQ Crew
Tuesday March 22, 2011 7:25:17 PM
no ratings

Once the conversation is started, how far down the chain do you stop it?

For example, suppose I do post the occasion flame post and have morning after regret.

But by then, three others have quoted and responded to my post (using my name in the quoted text).

Are you going to somehow trace and magically delete quotes of posts as well?

And what about sites that archive Internet content?

 

 

antonis
IQ Crew
Tuesday March 22, 2011 8:34:30 AM

Hi ivka, the difference you point between online and offline comments is important.  As mentioned in the article, the motivation for the legislation is to put pressure on websites in doing more to protect our data.

 

Contrary to the general belief, this can benefit the companies as well! Reading yesterday's article on BBC "the average data breach costs UK firms about £1.9m annually". So handling customer/user data will continue to be an increasing burden.

Kicheko
IQ Crew
Tuesday March 22, 2011 8:15:52 AM

..Wolf is hypothesizing instances in which a person comments on another’s post and, later, the first person wants to delete the thread -- which entails deleting the second person’s comment. But that, says Wolf, clearly impedes the second person’s free speech rights..


A similar case would be if one wants to take down a blog they set up and clear all traces of it(or for that matter a website with any form of outside party correspondence).

This would imply then that if i originate a discussion on the internet i have a greater right over the people that choose to correspond with me, regardless of whether the platform belongs to me or not. Am not sure to what extent this will be acceptable as a general rule.

ivka
IQ Crew
Tuesday March 22, 2011 2:33:42 AM

This kind of thinking is contrary to the way, not just the Internet, but the whole macrocosm of human communication works.

Michael, to my mind, this is partially true. It does sound ridiculous but then our offline communication is not recorded and cannot be found in a matter of seconds. People tend to forget things we say and we apologize and make up for something we've said or done. This is not always possible with online postings.

Michael Bennett Cohn
Thinkernetter
Monday March 21, 2011 4:55:24 PM

Clearly this piece relates to Nicole's recent editorial on an Internet bill of rights.

This sort of thing might be semi-workable if it's mandated as part of specific user-site relationships. For example, Internet Evolution might enter into an agreement with its users that they have the right to request removal of their own comments. And there might be a law that mandates such an agreement, and/or lays the foundation for it to be easily made. And then, with the boundaries being clear, it's enforcable (albeit ridiculous, and I'm not saying we should have that).

What's impossible is to make a blanket rule that your digital footprint is not really a footprint. No single person or entity has that much power, so such a rule is immediately rendered meaningless. We might as well say that everyone has the right to redact all their offline commentary. Letters to the editor you wrote in the 1970s might have to be scrubbed from the newspapers' microfiche archive. It's just stupid. This kind of thinking is contrary to the way, not just the Internet, but the whole macrocosm of human communication works.

 

modza
IQ Crew
Monday March 21, 2011 1:30:23 PM
no ratings

Every interest group thinks their pet right is foundational and inviolable, but rights do conflict. In this case, we have our all-American free speech right, enshrined in the Constitution, and the equally all-American right to privacy, embodied by Tea Partiers in their rallying cry of keep the Government out of my affairs, by Republicans as keep Government out of companies' way, and by liberals as keep the government out of my bedroom, and keep companies out of my affairs. 

But I digress. 

Even within Europe, ideas of privacy and of celebrity collide. In the UK, reporters for the gossip rags have felt completely free to tap celebrity telephones and emails (albeit not legally). 

So who's going to draw the borders?

 

 

smkinoshita
Thinkernetter
Monday March 21, 2011 10:38:56 AM
no ratings

Too many complications both legal and technical.  I'm not an expert in either, but even I know that trying to remove something once its published (even if it was never published digitally initially) is a nightmare even if everyone's willing to go along... nevermind keeping in the mind the actions of users.

While there are some good reasons in support of being able to have things removed, I personally don't like the fact that it also feels like its removing being responsible for one's own online actions.

So one can presume that with the self style EU mandate of the 'right to be forgotten' coming into force, my avartar can now has the license to engage in vitriol stuff kowing fully that  I can get a clean online slate by invoking this new EU mandate.

You got to love the Europeans!! Always in the leading edge of legalism!!!!

abdlah
IQ Crew
Monday March 21, 2011 9:14:26 AM

The effort to ensure privacy is a good thing. All efforts must me made to ensure whatever little amount of privacy can reasonably be given to the user is better than nothing,

The process needs to be thought through thoroughly.

Page 1 of 2   Next >
The ThinkerNet does not reflect the views of TechWeb. The ThinkerNet is an informal means of communication to members and visitors of the Internet Evolution site. Individual authors are chosen by Internet Evolution to blog. Neither Internet Evolution nor TechWeb assume responsibility for comments, claims, or opinions made by authors and ThinkerNet bloggers. They are no substitute for your own research and should not be relied upon for trading or any other purpose.
previous posts from Robert McGarvey
Robert McGarvey
Businesses are cutting the landline tether surprisingly quickly. "The rise of the cellphone-only worker is happening at lightning speed," wrote David Cameron, president of the IT services firm Rhode Island-based Conduit Systems, in an email.
Robert McGarvey
Robert McGarvey   11/29/2012   82 comments
The drumbeats are loud. Google, reports filter out of Asia, is preparing to manufacture its own Chromebook, to be branded Google and/or Nexus. The blunt question: Is this dumb or smart on the part of the Mountain View, Calif.-based company?
Robert McGarvey
Robert McGarvey   11/27/2012   38 comments
Hurricane Sandy -- one of the most expensive storms ever, causing an estimated $50 billion in damages -- may have devastated New Jersey and parts of New York. However, it also may turn into the poster child for the why of cloud-based disaster recovery and business continuity services, according to providers, and financial institutions are among the companies most likely to take the plunge.
Robert McGarvey
Robert McGarvey   11/13/2012   24 comments
Call this the ultimate bar brawler question among telephony geeks: Is Skype business-grade quality, or is it best used for calling the folks back in County Donegal on the odd Sunday for free? (See: It's Too Soon to Hang Up on Skype.)
Robert McGarvey
Robert McGarvey   10/22/2012   51 comments
Businesses attempting to stuff the ballot box on Yelp with paid-for favorable reviews will feel the pain of full public disclosure and humiliation. In a blog last week, Yelp made it plain it intended to root out and destroy businesses that sought to buy positive scores.
5
of
Steve Saunders' Outernet
USA Sics Ashton Kutcher on Russia

3|3|10   |   02:16   |   9 comments


The United States' taxpayer-funded technology delegation to Russia turns into a mortifying embarrassment for anyone even remotely proud to be American.
Rob Salkowitz
The Use & Abuse of BI

2|1|10   |   2:19   |   4 comments


Data mining of social networks means people might face unforeseen consequences as a result of their seemingly innocuous personal choices and associations.
Mitch Wagner
Even Jerks Need Jobs

10|23|12   |   3:56   |   26 comments


Michael Brutsch, a.k.a. Reddit's Violentacrez, is a creep who posted borderline kiddie porn to the Internet anonymously, and got fired when outed by a media outlet. It's a cautionary tale even for people who aren't jerks and predators.
Second Shooter
Twitter Tweaks Twist Facebook?

9|20|12   |   2:07   |   8 comments


Twitter's changes are clearly aimed at being more Facebook-like, and this is because both companies are vying to serve the mobile social network market. But can that market work for anybody, given how difficult it is to push ads to social-update readers?
Wisdom of the Big Chair
Facebook Activity Isn't Protected as Political Speech

9|18|12   |   2:36   |   10 comments


A US District Court Judge recently ruled that a sheriff can fire six employees who used Facebook to support an opposing candidate.
Mitch Wagner
LinkedIn Will Be the Last Social Network Standing

8|31|12   |   2:34   |   15 comments


While Facebook and Twitter get more attention, LinkedIn's going to be the long-term winner.
Kim Davis
Facebook's European Nightmare

2|10|12   |   2:12   |   14 comments


Max Schrems, an Austrian law student, has been hauling Facebook over the coals for its data protection practices.
Reiter's Block
Twitter Caves to Censors but Isn't the Enemy

1|30|12   |   2:49   |   13 comments


The Internet erupted in rage when Twitter said it could block tweets on a country-by-country basis. But avoid knee jerk reactions!
Kim Davis
From Facebook to Eternity

12|6|11   |   1:54   |   8 comments


Facebook has more than 5 million deceased members and policies for how to handle their accounts. But, one problem: After people pass away, it's too late for them to decide whether they want their social media accounts preserved, "memorialized," or deleted.
Ann Cavoukian
Privacy Is Everyone's Responsibility

11|1|11   |   4:01   |   17 comments


Ontario's privacy commissioner offers advice to businesses and users for protecting privacy online.
IETV: the thinkerNet on film
5
of
John Kennedy
How Big-Data Is Changing Marketing

6|13|13   |   1:07   |   1 comment


Big-data and analytics tools enable marketers to understand customers as individuals, identifying unmet needs and addressing each customer as a "segment of one," says John Kennedy, VP corporate marketing, IBM.
Kim Davis
Big-Data Can’t Always Sell Wine

5|21|13   |   2:23   |   10 comments


Whole Foods Global Wine Purchaser Doug Bell told me about some of the constraints on using analytics in the US wine market.
Paul J. Fleuranges
Digital Signage Keeps NYC Subway Straphangers on Track

5|6|13   |   3:51   |   1 comment


New York's Metropolitan Transit Authority is conducting a pilot test of digital kiosks to guide subway users to where they want to go more efficiently and at lower cost.
Kim Davis
Fast Forward to the Future

4|23|13   |   2:29   |   20 comments


A look back at tech writing in the 90s makes us wonder where enterprise IT will be 20 years from now.
Mitch Wagner
Google Launches Its Most Depressing Service Yet

4|15|13   |   2:59   |   10 comments


Google's new Inactive Account Manager lets you control how Google disposes of your accounts when you die.
Second Shooter
Argument Over Top-Level Domains Is 'Stupid'

4|11|13   |   2:07   |   3 comments


The whole Amazon.reader debate is a double-stupid. It's stupid to think that there's any e-book buyer who doesn't know Amazon's URL, and it was stupider to let ICANN launch the whole free-form TLD initiative to start with.
Kim Davis
Ladies, Your Tablet Awaits

3|21|13   |   2:22   |   37 comments


ePad Femme is the world’s first tablet “made exclusively for women.”
Wisdom of the Big Chair
NFC Moves Into the Mainstream

3|20|13   |   2:16   |   No comments


While NFC's original goal was to enhance mobile commerce applications, it is finding its way into a number of other uses, which is creating both opportunity as well as challenges for IT departments.
Wisdom of the Big Chair
Integrating Security Into Your Cloud Contract

3|19|13   |   3:35   |   No comments


Enterprises would like to move to cloud computing but are hesitant because they are concerned about providers’ ability to secure company data. Here are some tips that help to ensure that if breaches occur, the business is not left holding the bag.
Brian Baron
How Edmunds.com Collects Customer Information

3|18|13   |   1:15   |   No comments


Edmunds separates customers into segments based on the info it collects on its site and from partners, and uses that to push out custom content, said Brian Baron, director of business analytics for Edmunds.com, at Predictive Analytics Innovation Summit.
2pm EDT
Fri
Jun 21st
an IBM information resource
sponsored content
big blue blog
Todd Watson
Todd Watson   6/18/2013   Post a comment
The IBM Smarter Commerce Global Summit in Monaco kicked into high gear today, and we've already begun to see news emerging from that lovely city-state by the sea.
an IBM information resource
sponsored content
Expert Integrated Systems: Changing the Experience & Economics of IT
In this e-book, we take an in-depth look at these expert integrated systems -- what they are, how they work, and how they have the potential to help CIOs achieve dramatic savings while restoring IT's role as business innovator.

READ THIS eBOOK
your weekly update of news, analysis, and
opinion from Internet Evolution - FREE!

REGISTER HERE
Wanted! Site Moderators
Internet Evolution is looking for a handful of readers to help moderate the message boards on our site – as well as engaging in high-IQ conversation with the industry mavens on our thinkerNet blogosphere. The job comes with various perks, bags of kudos, and GIANT bragging rights. Interested?

Please email: moderators@internetevolution.com
Internet Evolution – not for thickies
Taking a Dim View of Home Energy Management Tech
Mary E. Shacklett
Energy consumption is a primary contributor to
global warming. At the end of 2012, 40 percent of energy consumption in the US came from commercial and residential buildings.

CLICK FOR MORE
NSA Leaks Shine Spotlight on Perils of Contractor Partnerships
Jason Mick
The US National Security Agency learned the
hard way that it can be dangerous to give a contractor too much money and access, with too little scrutiny. The NSA and other government agencies hire tens of thousands of contractors a year to analyze data. Edward Snowden -- who revealed himself as the NSA leaker after fleeing the country -- was one such contractor, reportedly holding a $122,000 salaried position at Booz Allen Hamilton at the time of his departure.

CLICK FOR MORE
NSA Leaks Shine Spotlight on Perils of Contractor Partnerships
Jason Mick
The US National Security Agency learned the
hard way that it can be dangerous to give a contractor too much money and access, with too little scrutiny. The NSA and other government agencies hire tens of thousands of contractors a year to analyze data. Edward Snowden -- who revealed himself as the NSA leaker after fleeing the country -- was one such contractor, reportedly holding a $122,000 salaried position at Booz Allen Hamilton at the time of his departure.

CLICK FOR MORE
NSA Leaks Shine Spotlight on Perils of Contractor Partnerships
Jason Mick
The US National Security Agency learned the
hard way that it can be dangerous to give a contractor too much money and access, with too little scrutiny. The NSA and other government agencies hire tens of thousands of contractors a year to analyze data. Edward Snowden -- who revealed himself as the NSA leaker after fleeing the country -- was one such contractor, reportedly holding a $122,000 salaried position at Booz Allen Hamilton at the time of his departure.

CLICK FOR MORE
NSA Leaks Shine Spotlight on Perils of Contractor Partnerships
Jason Mick
The US National Security Agency learned the
hard way that it can be dangerous to give a contractor too much money and access, with too little scrutiny. The NSA and other government agencies hire tens of thousands of contractors a year to analyze data. Edward Snowden -- who revealed himself as the NSA leaker after fleeing the country -- was one such contractor, reportedly holding a $122,000 salaried position at Booz Allen Hamilton at the time of his departure.

CLICK FOR MORE